4.8. Being Overbold, the Disadvantages of Debate

Idheva suddhī iti vādayanti,

Nāññesu dhammesu visuddhimāhu;

Yaṁ nissitā tattha subhaṁ vadānā,

Paccekasaccesu puthū niviṭṭhā.

Te vādakāmā parisaṁ vigayha,

Bālaṁ dahantī mithu aññamaññaṁ;

Vadanti te aññasitā kathojjaṁ,

Pasaṁsakāmā kusalā vadānā.

Yutto kathāyaṁ parisāya majjhe,

Pasaṁsamicchaṁ vinighāti hoti;

Apāhatasmiṁ pana maṅku hoti,

Nindāya so kuppati randhamesī.

Yamassa vādaṁ parihīnamāhu,

Apāhataṁ pañhavimaṁsakāse;

Paridevati socati hīnavādo,

Upaccagā manti anutthunāti.

Ete vivādā samaṇesu jātā,

Etesu ugghātinighāti hoti;

Etampi disvā virame kathojjaṁ,

Na haññadatthatthi pasaṁsalābhā.

Pasaṁsito vā pana tattha hoti,

Akkhāya vādaṁ parisāya majjhe;

So hassatī unnamatī ca tena,

Pappuyya tamatthaṁ yathā mano ahu.

Yā unnatī sāssa vighātabhūmi,

Mānātimānaṁ vadate paneso;

Etampi disvā na vivādayetha,

Na hi tena suddhiṁ kusalā vadanti.

Sūro yathā rājakhādāya puṭṭho,

Abhigajjameti paṭisūramicchaṁ;

Yeneva so tena palehi sūra,

Pubbeva natthi yadidaṁ yudhāya.

Ye diṭṭhimuggayha vivādayanti,

Idameva saccanti ca vādayanti;

Te tvaṁ vadassū na hi tedha atthi,

Vādamhi jāte paṭisenikattā.

Visenikatvā pana ye caranti,

Diṭṭhīhi diṭṭhiṁ avirujjhamānā;

Tesu tvaṁ kiṁ labhetho pasūra,

Yesīdha natthī paramuggahītaṁ.

Atha tvaṁ pavitakkamāgamā,

Manasā diṭṭhigatāni cintayanto;

Dhonena yugaṁ samāgamā,

Na hi tvaṁ sakkhasi sampayātaveti.

Pasūrasuttaṁ aṭṭhamaṁ.

SC 1SC Verse 831They say: “In our Dharma purity’s found”
but deny that it is found in the Dharma of others.
On what they depend they say “it’s the best”,
and so settle down in their individual truths.

SC 2SC Verse 832Those disputants into the assembly rush,
and perceive opposedly “the other” as a fool.
But in disputes, on others they rely—
these so-called experts ever-loving praise.

SC 3SC Verse 833Engrossed in conflict midst the assembly,
fearing defeat, they wish only for praise,
having been refuted, that one’s truly confused,
angry at blame seeks weakness in the other.

SC 4SC Verse 834“Through investigation is your argument
refuted and destroyed”—so they say.
That one grieves and laments—that mere arguer,
“Oh! I am overcome” that person wails.

SC 5SC Verse 835Arisen among monks—those controversies
among them cause both elation and depression.
Refrain therefore, from disputation!
No meaning’s in it save the prize of praise.

SC 6SC Verse 836Praised in the midst of the assembly
for the presentation of arguments,
then that one laughs, or else is haughty.
So they say, “Conceited by winning debate”.

SC 7SC Verse 837Though haughtiness will be ground for a downfall,
still proudly that one speaks, and with arrogance:
this having seen, refrain from disputations—
not by that is there purity, so the skilled say.

SC 8SC Verse 838Just as a strong man, fed
upon royal food, might roar forth,
wishing for a champion rival,
but finds from the first there’s nought to fight.

SC 9SC Verse 839Those holding a view and disputing, say thus:
“This alone is the truth”, so they aver;
then reply to them: “But no one’s here
to retaliate through disputation”.

SC 10SC Verse 840They continue with their practice, offering no opposition
against others, offering no view opposed to view.
But then, Pasūra, what would you obtain?
For them there is nothing to be grasped as the highest.

SC 11SC Verse 841As you’ve come here, in your mind
thinking and speculating on various views,
you have met with a Washed One
But will not be able to make progress with him.