2.21. Name-and-Form and Rebirth
Bản dịch Tiếng Việt đang được cập nhật. Vui lòng tham khảo bản Tiếng Anh hoặc Pāli.
王復 T 0710b20問那先人以死後誰於後世生者。那先言名 T 0710b21與身於後世生。王問那先故人名身行生耶。 T 0710b22那先言不也。非故名亦非故身持是名身於 T 0710b23今世作善惡乃於後世生耳。王言如使今世 T 0710b24用是名身作善惡於後世身不復生者極可作 T 0710b25善惡徑可得脫不復更諸苦耶。那先言於今 T 0710b26世作善後世不復生者便可得脫無耶。人作 T 0710b27善惡不止當後生耳是故不得脫。那先言譬 T 0710b28如人盜他人果蓏其主得盜果者將至王前白 T 0710b29言。是人盜我果其盜者言。我不盜是人果是 T 0710c01人所種小栽耳本不種果也。我自取果我何 T 0710c02用為盜我不盜是人果我不應有罪過。那先 T 0710c03問王言。如是兩人共爭誰為直者誰不直者。 T 0710c04王言種栽家為直本造所種盜者無狀應為有 T 0710c05罪。那先言盜何用為有罪。王言所以盜者有 T 0710c06罪本種栽家所種從栽根生故上有果耳。那先 T 0710c07言人生亦譬如是人今世用是名身作善惡乃 T 0710c08生於後世今世作善惡者是本也。那先言。譬 T 0710c09如人盜他人禾穟其主得盜便牽問之汝盜我 T 0710c10禾穟。為盜者言我不盜卿禾穟卿自種禾我 T 0710c11自取穟我何用為犯盜。兩人相牽至王前白 T 0710c12如是誰為直者誰為不直。王言種禾穀為直 T 0710c13盜者為不直。那先言何以知盜禾穟者為不 T 0710c14直。王言是種禾者為本有不種禾者為無緣 T 0710c15何有穟。那先言人生亦譬如是。人今世用是 T 0710c16名身作善惡。乃生於後世。今世作善惡者是 T 0710c17其本也。那先言。譬如人冬寒於一舍中然火 T 0710c18欲自溫炙。其人棄火而去。稍稍然及壁土燒 T 0710c19屋連及樓舍。舍主因言起火者牽至王前白 T 0710c20言。是人起火延及燒我樓舍。然火者言我然 T 0710c21小火自溫炙耳。我不燒樓舍。那先問王誰為 T 0710c22直者。王言本然火者為不直本所生也。那先 T 0710c23言人生亦爾。譬如人今世用是名身作善惡。 T 0710c24乃生於後世今世作善惡者是本也。那先言 T 0710c25譬如人夜然燭火著壁欲用自照飯食。燭稍 T 0710c26却及壁上及竹木林材。便燒一舍火大熾延 T 0710c27及燒一城中。舉城中人民共[口*后]言。汝何為燒 T 0710c28一城中乃如是。然火者言我但然小燭火以 T 0710c29自照飯食耳。是自大火非我火也。如是便共 T 0711a01爭訟相牽至王前。那先問王言。如是誰為直 T 0711a02者誰為不直者。王言然火者為不直。那先言 T 0711a03何以知。王言本是火所生也。汝飯食已不當 T 0711a04滅火也而令火燒一城中。那先言。人生亦譬 T 0711a05如是人今世用是名身作善惡。乃生於後世 T 0711a06今世作善惡者是其本也。人用不知作善惡 T 0711a07故不能得度脫。那先言。譬如人以錢娉求人 T 0711a08家小女。以後女長大他人復更求娉求女得 T 0711a09女以為婦。前所娉家來自說言。汝反取婦為。 T 0711a10後家言。汝自小時娉女我自大時娉婦我何 T 0711a11用為嬰汝婦耶。便相牽詣王前。那先言王如 T 0711a12是誰為直者誰為不直者。王言前娉家為直。 T 0711a13那先言王何以知。王言是女本小今稍長大 T 0711a14是故知為直也。是前娉家婦也。那先言人生 T 0711a15亦譬如是人今世用是名身作善惡。乃生於 T 0711a16後世今世作善惡者是其本也。那先言譬如 T 0711a17人持瓶從牧牛家買乳湩。得湩已復還寄其主 T 0711a18言我今還。不久其人須臾來還取瓶湩湩以 T 0711a19轉作酪。買湩家言。我持湩寄卿今反持酪還 T 0711a20我牧牛者。言是汝故乳今自轉為酪。兩人因 T 0711a21共爭訟相牽詣王前。那先問王言如是誰為 T 0711a22直者。王言牧牛家為直那先言王何以知。王 T 0711a23言汝自買湩停置地自轉成酪。牧牛家當有 T 0711a24何過。那先言人生亦譬如是人今世用是名 T 0711a25身作善惡。乃生於後世今世作善惡者是其 T 0711a26本也。
The king asked Nāgasena, “What is reborn after death?”
Nāgasena replied, “Name-and-form (namarupa) is reborn in the next life.”
“Is it the former name-and-form that is reborn?”
“No, it is neither the former name, nor the former form, but by this name-and-form, good and evil deeds are done in this life and (from these deeds), another name-and-form is reborn in the next life.”
“If that be so, by this name-and-form, good and evil deeds are done in this life and this (name and) form is not to be reborn in the next life. Can one be released from the results of his good or bad deeds done (in this life) so that one does not suffer hereafter?”
“If one does good deeds in this life, and is not to be reborn in the next life, then he is released. But people perform good and bad karma continuously without stopping, surely they will reconnect again and therefore they are not released.”
(1) Simile of the fruit
Then Nāgasena gave a simile, “Suppose someone were to steal a fruit from another man, and the owner of the fruit were to seize the man and bring him before the king, saying, ‘This man has stolen my fruit.’ Then if the thief were to say, ‘Your Majesty, I have not taken away this man’s fruit. T 710c This man has only planted the small fruit tree but not the fruit. I take the fruit to be mine, why do I need to steal? So I have not stolen this man’s fruit, I am not guilty.’”
Nāgasena said to the king: “Thus the two persons argue with each other as to who is right who is wrong.”
The king said, “The person who has planted the fruit tree is correct, because the fruit comes from that plant. The thief’s argument does not stand up, he is guilty.”
“Why is the thief guilty?” asked Nāgasena.
“The thief is guilty because it was the owner of the fruit tree who had planted it, allowed the tree to grow roots and thus bear fruits.”
Then Nāgasena said, “So it is in the life of a person. If a person, by this name-and-form, does good and evil deeds in this life and then is reborn in the next life, the good and evil deeds done in this life are the causes and conditions (for birth).”
(2) Simile of the crops
Nāgasena gave another simile, “Suppose a man were to steal another man’s crop of ripened grains and the owner were to seize the thief and says, ‘You have stolen my crops.’ The thief argues, ‘I have not stolen your crops, you have sown the cereal grass, but I take the crops, so how can you say that I commit theft?’ The two persons argued with each other and went before the king to tell the king about their dispute. Who is right and who is wrong?”
“The man who has sown the crops is correct, the thief is wrong.” said the king.
“How can you know that the one who steals the crops is wrong?”
“Sowing the paddy is the root cause. If there is no sowing of cereal grass, there is no root cause, thus how can there be crops?”
“So it is in the life of a person. A person, by this name-and-form, does good and evil deeds in this life, and he is reborn in the next life. The good and evil deeds done in this life are the root causes and conditions.”
(3) Simile of fire
Nāgasena gave a simile, “It is like a man who feels cold in the winter and therefore lights a fire in the house to warm himself up. Then he leaves the fire still burning and goes away. After sometime, the fire burns the walls, rooms and the house. Then if the owner of the house were to seize that man and take him before the king, saying, ‘This man lit a fire and that fire has burned my house.’ Then the man who lights the fire says, ‘I lit a small fire in order to warm myself, I did not intend to burn the house.’”
Nāgasena asked, “Who is right, who is wrong?”
The king said, “The person who lit the fire is wrong, because the fire serves as a cause or condition (for the burning of the house).”
Nāgasena said, “So it is in the life of a person. It is like a person who, by this name-and-form, does good and evil deeds in this life, and thus is to be reborn in the next life. The good and evil deeds done in this life serve as causes and conditions.”
(4) Simile of the candle fire
Nāgasena gave another simile, “Suppose a man were to light a candle and put it on the wall, and by that light he takes his meal. After some time, if the flame of the candle were to set the wall on fire, then the bamboo and other wood until at last all the houses were on fire. The fire spreads and at last burns the whole city. Then the people of the whole city were to ask the man, ‘You fellow, what have you set the whole of our city on fire for?’ And then the man would say, ‘I just lit a small candle in order to take my meal by the light. Therefore this big fire is different from that small flame which I lit.’ Now, if they, thus disputing, T 711a should go before the king, who is right who is wrong?”
“The person who lit the fire is wrong and guilty.”
“But why?”
“Because, Sir, the cause comes from the fire. After he has had his meal, he did not put out the fire and therefore the whole city caught fire.”
Nāgasena said, “Just so is the life of a person. A person, by this name-and-form, does good and evil deeds in this life, and is reborn in the next life. The good and evil deeds done in this life are the causes and conditions. Because of ignorance (avidya), a person does good and evil deeds, therefore he is not released (from suffering).”
(5) Simile of the marriage
Nāgasena again gave a simile, “Suppose, a man were to choose a young girl in marriage and give a price for her. After some years, she, in due course, grows up to a mature age and another man paid a price to marry her. Then the first man would come and say, ‘You fellow, why have you married my wife?’ Then if the other were to say, ‘You have chosen the young girl for marriage and paid a price for her, but I have chosen the grown up girl for marriage and paid a price for her, how can you say that I have married your wife?’ Thus disputing, should the two men go before the king, who is right, who is wrong?”
“The first one is right.”
“But why?”
“Because, Sir, the grown up girl would have been derived from the young girl. Therefore she is the wife of the first one. So the first one is right.”
“Just so is the life of a person. If a person, by this name-and-form, does good and evil deeds in this life, and then should he be reborn in the next life, the good and evil deeds done in this life are the causes and conditions of the next life.”
(6) Simile of the milk
Nāgasena gave another simile, “Suppose a man were to take a bottle and buy milk from a herdsman. Then he leaves the bottle in the herdsman’s charge and says, ‘I will come back for it later.’ After some time, the man comes back to take his bottle of milk, but that bottle of milk has turned into curds already. Then the man, the buyer, says to the herdsman, ‘I have bought milk not curds. But now you give me curds.’ And then if the other were to reply, ‘It is your milk that has turned into curds.’ If they thus disputing with each other, should go before the king, who is right and who is wrong?”
“The herdsman is right.”
“But why?”
“Because, the man bought milk and left it at the herdsman’s house. The milk itself turned into curds, where is the guilt of the herdsman?”
Nāgasena said, “Just so is the life of a person. If a person, by this name-and-form, does good and evil deeds in this life, and then is reborn in the next life, the good and evil deeds done in this life are the causes and conditions of that.”
The king asked Nāgasena, “What is reborn after death?”
Nāgasena replied, “Name-and-form (namarupa) is reborn in the next life.”
“Is it the former name-and-form that is reborn?”
“No, it is neither the former name, nor the former form, but by this name-and-form, good and evil deeds are done in this life and (from these deeds), another name-and-form is reborn in the next life.”
“If that be so, by this name-and-form, good and evil deeds are done in this life and this (name and) form is not to be reborn in the next life. Can one be released from the results of his good or bad deeds done (in this life) so that one does not suffer hereafter?”
“If one does good deeds in this life, and is not to be reborn in the next life, then he is released. But people perform good and bad karma continuously without stopping, surely they will reconnect again and therefore they are not released.”
(1) Simile of the fruit
Then Nāgasena gave a simile, “Suppose someone were to steal a fruit from another man, and the owner of the fruit were to seize the man and bring him before the king, saying, ‘This man has stolen my fruit.’ Then if the thief were to say, ‘Your Majesty, I have not taken away this man’s fruit. T 710c This man has only planted the small fruit tree but not the fruit. I take the fruit to be mine, why do I need to steal? So I have not stolen this man’s fruit, I am not guilty.’”
Nāgasena said to the king: “Thus the two persons argue with each other as to who is right who is wrong.”
The king said, “The person who has planted the fruit tree is correct, because the fruit comes from that plant. The thief’s argument does not stand up, he is guilty.”
“Why is the thief guilty?” asked Nāgasena.
“The thief is guilty because it was the owner of the fruit tree who had planted it, allowed the tree to grow roots and thus bear fruits.”
Then Nāgasena said, “So it is in the life of a person. If a person, by this name-and-form, does good and evil deeds in this life and then is reborn in the next life, the good and evil deeds done in this life are the causes and conditions (for birth).”
(2) Simile of the crops
Nāgasena gave another simile, “Suppose a man were to steal another man’s crop of ripened grains and the owner were to seize the thief and says, ‘You have stolen my crops.’ The thief argues, ‘I have not stolen your crops, you have sown the cereal grass, but I take the crops, so how can you say that I commit theft?’ The two persons argued with each other and went before the king to tell the king about their dispute. Who is right and who is wrong?”
“The man who has sown the crops is correct, the thief is wrong.” said the king.
“How can you know that the one who steals the crops is wrong?”
“Sowing the paddy is the root cause. If there is no sowing of cereal grass, there is no root cause, thus how can there be crops?”
“So it is in the life of a person. A person, by this name-and-form, does good and evil deeds in this life, and he is reborn in the next life. The good and evil deeds done in this life are the root causes and conditions.”
(3) Simile of fire
Nāgasena gave a simile, “It is like a man who feels cold in the winter and therefore lights a fire in the house to warm himself up. Then he leaves the fire still burning and goes away. After sometime, the fire burns the walls, rooms and the house. Then if the owner of the house were to seize that man and take him before the king, saying, ‘This man lit a fire and that fire has burned my house.’ Then the man who lights the fire says, ‘I lit a small fire in order to warm myself, I did not intend to burn the house.’”
Nāgasena asked, “Who is right, who is wrong?”
The king said, “The person who lit the fire is wrong, because the fire serves as a cause or condition (for the burning of the house).”
Nāgasena said, “So it is in the life of a person. It is like a person who, by this name-and-form, does good and evil deeds in this life, and thus is to be reborn in the next life. The good and evil deeds done in this life serve as causes and conditions.”
(4) Simile of the candle fire
Nāgasena gave another simile, “Suppose a man were to light a candle and put it on the wall, and by that light he takes his meal. After some time, if the flame of the candle were to set the wall on fire, then the bamboo and other wood until at last all the houses were on fire. The fire spreads and at last burns the whole city. Then the people of the whole city were to ask the man, ‘You fellow, what have you set the whole of our city on fire for?’ And then the man would say, ‘I just lit a small candle in order to take my meal by the light. Therefore this big fire is different from that small flame which I lit.’ Now, if they, thus disputing, T 711a should go before the king, who is right who is wrong?”
“The person who lit the fire is wrong and guilty.”
“But why?”
“Because, Sir, the cause comes from the fire. After he has had his meal, he did not put out the fire and therefore the whole city caught fire.”
Nāgasena said, “Just so is the life of a person. A person, by this name-and-form, does good and evil deeds in this life, and is reborn in the next life. The good and evil deeds done in this life are the causes and conditions. Because of ignorance (avidya), a person does good and evil deeds, therefore he is not released (from suffering).”
(5) Simile of the marriage
Nāgasena again gave a simile, “Suppose, a man were to choose a young girl in marriage and give a price for her. After some years, she, in due course, grows up to a mature age and another man paid a price to marry her. Then the first man would come and say, ‘You fellow, why have you married my wife?’ Then if the other were to say, ‘You have chosen the young girl for marriage and paid a price for her, but I have chosen the grown up girl for marriage and paid a price for her, how can you say that I have married your wife?’ Thus disputing, should the two men go before the king, who is right, who is wrong?”
“The first one is right.”
“But why?”
“Because, Sir, the grown up girl would have been derived from the young girl. Therefore she is the wife of the first one. So the first one is right.”
“Just so is the life of a person. If a person, by this name-and-form, does good and evil deeds in this life, and then should he be reborn in the next life, the good and evil deeds done in this life are the causes and conditions of the next life.”
(6) Simile of the milk
Nāgasena gave another simile, “Suppose a man were to take a bottle and buy milk from a herdsman. Then he leaves the bottle in the herdsman’s charge and says, ‘I will come back for it later.’ After some time, the man comes back to take his bottle of milk, but that bottle of milk has turned into curds already. Then the man, the buyer, says to the herdsman, ‘I have bought milk not curds. But now you give me curds.’ And then if the other were to reply, ‘It is your milk that has turned into curds.’ If they thus disputing with each other, should go before the king, who is right and who is wrong?”
“The herdsman is right.”
“But why?”
“Because, the man bought milk and left it at the herdsman’s house. The milk itself turned into curds, where is the guilt of the herdsman?”
Nāgasena said, “Just so is the life of a person. If a person, by this name-and-form, does good and evil deeds in this life, and then is reborn in the next life, the good and evil deeds done in this life are the causes and conditions of that.”